regndoft: (Angelic Bastard)
[personal profile] regndoft

Ok. Reading the first chapter of Catch 22 and post opinion in A course forum=Done. Also, almost finished the first of my two Swedish essays. :D

Therefore, I thought it was time for me to indulge myself and some other people on my F-List a little. Not counting the coke and chocolate next to me, that is. I remember telling (promising? o__o;) Finny amongst other people to make an entry here concerning the English edition vs the Swedish translation of Good Omens, comparing words and expressions and such. Last year, in fact. And today I finally had enough of severe procrastination to the point of ridiculousness and decided to write it.

Since I haven't actually *read* the Swedish edition, just skimmed through, I won't bring up every single difference between the two, just some of the more memorable quotes or that I find a little funny. Since I'm going to write both English and Swedish quote and then try to explain as detailed as possible the differnces it might end up quite long as well, so I'm not sure how many quotes I'll get done when I'm writing this.

Anyway, here's to dorkiness:
 

(In case you didn't get it, the cut text is the translation of the very first line of the prologue. Go figure if you can't figure out which that is. XP)

First thing I might mention is that the little I've read of it, the Swedish translation is very good. Most of the descriptions basically say what the original version does, except for some of the examples I'm going to bring up here and the changes of some names for the sake of linguistic convenience.

To start of lightly, I'll bring to attention the title of the book, Goda Omen, which is exactly the same as the English. The first thing that drew my attention though was the translation of The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter; "Agnes Nutters Nyktra och Precisa Profetior." I love the translation here, because it basically MEANS the same thing but the effect it has on the book is actually a little funnier than in the English version. "Nykter", (the singular form of "Nyktra",) means sober, which certainly gives some different implications than nice. XP

(Page 17, 2006 American edition.)

"Why me?" said Crowley desperately. "You know me, Hastur, this isn't, you know, my scene..."
"Oh, it is, it is," said Hastur. "Your scene. Your starring role. Take it. Times are changing."


"Varför just jag?" sa Crowley desperat. "Du känner mig, Hastur, du vet att det här inte är min likör..."
"Jodå, det är det," sa Hastur. "Din likör. Hela flaskan. Ta den. Tiderna förändras."

- Basically the same, except that they've changed the expressions scene, starring role to "Liqueur, the whole bottle." I quite liked the alcoholic references. XD

(P.38)

"Technically Aziraphale was a Principality, but people made jokes about that these days."

"Tekniskt sett var Aziraphale en Suveränitet, men det gjorde sig folk lustiga över nuförtiden."

- Not of any significance, except that the Swedish equivalence of Principality, from the word "Suverän", literally means "superb". 8D An alternate translation is sovereign, which is probably closer to what the translator was aiming for (I don't know what Principality actually IS in Swedish, I have never found any book on angels in Swedish, but I'm pretty sure it's not Suveränitet.) but it's not exactly what you as a native speaker first relate it to. 


(p. 41.)

"No more compact discs. No more Albert Hall. No more Proms. No more Glyndbourne. Just celestial harmonies all day."
"Ineffable," Aziraphale murmured.

"Inga fler cd-skivor. Inget mer Albert Hall. Inga fler promenadkonserter. Inget mer Glyndebourne. Bara himmelska harmonier dagarna i ända."
"Ofattbart," muttrade Aziraphale.

-MISTRANSLATION. The only one I've found, actually. According to several online dictionaries, alternate meanings of 'ineffable' is indefinable, indescribable, inexpressible, unspeakable, unutterable or untellable, but never incomprehensible, which "Ofattbart" means. XP

"Aziraphale relaxed. "You know, Crowley," he said, beaming. "I've always said that, deep down inside, you're really quite a--"
"All right, all
right," Crowley snapped. "Tell the whole blessed world, why don't you?"

"Aziraphale slappnade av. "Vet du, Crowley," sa han och strålade mot demonen, "jag har alltid hävdat att du, innerst inne, egentligen är en riktig ä--"
"Okej, okej," fräste Crowley. "Varför går du inte och berättar för hela världen!"

- The differences between these two sentences are actually both interesting and stunning. (o.o;) It seems to me that the Swedish version underlines the demonic/angelic aspects of Aziraphale and Crowley, and before reading that line it never hit me before that Aziraphale's "A--" could be the beginning of 'Angelic.' It might not have been the authors' original intention, but it's an interesting interpretation.

Aziraphale's line literally translated from Swedish means "You know, Crowley," he said and beamed towards the demon, "I've always claimed that you, deep inside, really is a real a--" I took the liberty to bold the words I found worth noting. In this context, the Swedish "Ä--" can be nothing else than "Ängel."

Crowley's line is basically the same, but leaving out the word 'blessed' and for some reason adding an exclamation instead of a question mark at the end of the sentence.

(p.105)

"Which meant, as she had feared, that it was probably in the back of a car belonging to two consenting cycle repairmen."

"Vilket innebar, precis som hon hela tiden hade befarat, att den troligen låg i baksätet på en bil tillhörande två homosexuella cykelreparatörer."

- I just love how the Swedish version straightly states that Anathema believes they're both homosexual. No waltzing around here, oh no. 8D

Quick pause here to state that the clock is ten o'clock in the evening over here and I'm getting kind of tired, so I'll just jump far ahead and add two more examples only for the sheer gayness of them. XD

(p.151)

"Many people, meeting Aziraphale for the first time, formed three impressions: that he was English, that he was intelligent, and that he was gayer than a tree full of monkeys on nitrous oxide."
"De flesta människor som träffade Aziraphale för första gången kom snabbt fram till tre slutsatser: att han var engelsman, att han var intelligent, och att han var fjolligare än en fikus i full blom."

- I nearly DIED when I read the translated version for the first time! XD Literally translated, it becomes something like "The majority of people who met Aziraphale for the first time quickly reached three conclusions: that he was English, that he was intelligent, and that he was more of a pansy than a ficus in full bloom."

Which doesn't make much sense at all, unless you know that ficus is Swedish slang for gay, queer, etc etc. That and the references to 'full bloom' nearly killed me. (Small source of annoyance: 'fjolla' is commonly translated to 'silly woman.' This is the general use, but in this context 'pansy' really is more accurate. Which almost makes it even more hilarious since pansy is also a flower. XD)

That and the fact that people reach CONCLUSIONS and doesn't form IMPRESSIONS is also kind of amusing. 83

Also, from the same paragraph:

"(...) angels are sexless unless they really want to make an effort."

"(...) änglar är könlösa såvida de inte verkligen är beredda att bjuda till."

- Now, they essentially MEAN the same thing, but a literal Swedish translation could be something like this:  "Angels are sexless unless they are really prepared to make an offer."  For further hilarity, note that 'att bjuda', in a different context, also could mean "to invite."

 
Conclusion: if you didn't think Crowley/Aziraphale had real basis in the book, read the Swedish version. Translations=Hilarity.

//Taiyou-Chan.
(deleted comment)

Date: 2008-09-06 09:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com
Always glad to put a smile on somebody's face! xD Thanks for the comment. :3

Date: 2008-09-06 08:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] freudian-lisp.livejournal.com
"...och att han var fjolligare än en fikus i full blom."

Oh my god, this one nearly killed me. Thank you so much for doing this, I never read the Norwegian version when an English (if that’s the original language) version is available, but something tells me I'd have great fun with it

Skulle ha lest den svenske versjonen bare for å kunne si at jeg har gjort det, hehe

Date: 2008-09-06 09:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com
I pretty much reacted the same way. XD That line was done with such grace, it almost entirely restored my fate in book translations, lol. <3 I myself bought the English edition first, and about a month later I couldn't resist buying the Swedish one as well just out of curiousity, and because it was quite cheap. (And it had the Gay Omens cover--*Shot*)

Hade nog inte varit slöseri med tid, den är ganska hysterisk, även om Aziraphales brittiska fjollighet inte är sig riktigt lik. XP

Date: 2008-09-06 09:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] freudian-lisp.livejournal.com
PS. I feel kind of dumb for not thinking of Angel the first time I read I've always said that, deep down inside, you're really quite a--, I always thought it was "All right"...

Date: 2008-09-06 09:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enaranie.livejournal.com
Oh, this is awesome! Especially the "full bloom" bit. And the bit that almost certainly is the first letter of "angel"... well, I think that's what I got from the english, but it's nice to see that it's more explicitly stated in translation.

Date: 2008-09-06 09:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com
C: Thank you! And yes, I'm glad I decided to actually sit down and try to do this, it has turned out to be both amusing and rewarding. XD Really? I'm such a dork apparently, I sat there naively thinking that he probably meant "a nice fellow" or something equally weak in comparison. X)

Date: 2008-09-06 09:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] makeanewworld.livejournal.com
Haha, oh this is great. :D I loved the "ficus in full bloom" double meaning, similar to the English double-meaning of "gay" in that sentence. It's cool that the translator did such a good job of conveying the humour of the original even when it meant diverging from the original meaning. Much better than a literal translation!

Thanks for doing this!

Date: 2008-09-06 09:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com
Yes, I adore the translator's job with this book. The only thing it doesn't really do an excellent job with is properly channeling Aziraphale's British gayness in Swedish, but then again that IS impossible. xD

You're welcome, it was my pleasure. C:

Date: 2008-09-06 09:50 pm (UTC)
erinptah: (libertyjustice)
From: [personal profile] erinptah
This is so cool. Thank you for putting it together and typing it up for us!

Date: 2008-09-06 09:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com
No problems at all, I enoyed it. ^^ I might do another post with other examples another time, since the ones featured here doesn't even cover half the book... When I'm not drowning in schoolwork.

Date: 2008-09-07 12:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] quantum-witch.livejournal.com
I. LOVE. YOU.

And a blessed freaking "THANKS" as well, for the sheer literalness of other languages. Too many Americans take English at face value, without exploring the incredible subtleties of British English.

Date: 2008-09-07 12:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com
OH COME NOW. It's not *that* amazing, is it? As popular as this post seems to be though I might really have to sit down another time and skim through the rest of the book. x'D

Date: 2008-09-07 11:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] quantum-witch.livejournal.com
Seriously, this really helped. At least for the ones who have tried and tried to get certain points across...

Date: 2008-09-07 02:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kitsuneasika.livejournal.com
OMG I want to learn Swedish now. XD

Date: 2008-09-07 12:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com
http://www.onlineswedish.com/main.php

http://lexin.nada.kth.se/swe-eng.html

In case you were, like, serious. 8DDD

Date: 2008-09-07 04:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kitsuneasika.livejournal.com
Well, I kinda was, kind awasn't =P I do want to learn it sometime, but not this very second.

*bookmarks links* I've been saving links for learning various language consantly lately, lol.

Date: 2008-09-07 04:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lillypuff.livejournal.com
Oh, this is so cool! Thanks for posting this, its really neat to see the differences!

Date: 2008-09-07 12:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com
No problem. It's fun just to see how appreciated this is, as a native Swede. x'D

Date: 2008-09-07 05:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ootorotan.livejournal.com
Oh my Gooooood~~ xD
Thank you for making the effort of jotting that down xD *dies*
....I should try to find a Norwegian version now, just for the heck of it 8D
But of course, it can't possibly be more supportive of Crowley/Aziraphale than the Swedish version xD

Date: 2008-09-07 12:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com
ANYTHING FOR THE FANDOM, LOVE. ANYTHING, EVEN IF IT CAUSES ME PAIN IN MY NECK AND BUTT FOR SITTING IN THE SAME POSITION FOR 90 MINUTES. x'D

Seriously though, it was fun. It could perhaps give me extra points in my English A course if I chose to show it to Christian, so I dunno, it might work both ways. 8D

I have a hard time thinking anything can be. Some indecent part of me want to believe that the translator shipped them himself. XD

Date: 2008-09-07 06:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thepurpleranger.livejournal.com
Omg, the swedish translation is such win! If they ever have a chinese version I'm sooo picking it up cos I'm sure it'd be hilarious. oh and homosexuella is an amazing word. xD

Date: 2008-09-07 12:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com
I know, I'm glad I bought it even though I haven't actually read it yet. XD I personally think any translation that's not in a language with strictly European roots would be interesting, because... Well. I know there's a Japanese and a Hebrew version, I'm especially curious about the latter. XP

Homosexuella, an adjective in pluralis. 8P I just love that they actually USE it in the book. XD

Date: 2008-09-07 08:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] twiyah.livejournal.com
Oh, now I just have to read it! As a finnish-speaking gal, swedish has always struck me as somehow hilarious (for a lack of better word), like it's always got a happy undertone, which brings it's own bonus into swedish books. You know, the way the Finnish sing deep-voiced angst!heavy and you have the danny pop.

The finnish edition has nicely vanished from the market, but in the golden 90's it was my first glimpse of good omens. Don't remember how those lines translated. At least none of the English jokes and references survived through.

Date: 2008-09-07 12:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com
xDD YOU GO GIRL. That's funny, because me being Swedish and comparing it to other languages have always thought it sounds duller than English or Spanish or Norwegian for example, maybe because the pronounciation is ever so slightly lower and more monotonous. (._.;) But at the same time, I think you're right. I know that Swedish translations often work better with humourous books, like Douglas Adams or Nick Hornby's works, than serious poetry or such.

I think that's why I really like the Swedish version. Even though some linguistic impressions (like Aziraphale's language or Shadwell's dialect(s) ) get lost they still have preserved the jokes and most essential expressions in a most satisfying way. XP

... Motorbikes? Srsly? x'D The Swedish version I found at the library had the original cover from 1990 and the one I own is the 2006 (I think) Gay Omens edition. 8P

Date: 2008-09-07 02:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] twiyah.livejournal.com
Oh, I wish they sold Gay Omens here too!

And yeah, I think you have to speak higher when speaking Swedish instead of Finnish (now that is monotonously pronounced, even when it's quite good for expression due to it's complexity.

Many times, it seems English is considered as cool, and I admit that for example, reading porn, crude fanfiction etc. in English goes, but any other language would not be so forgiving and I'd be snorting all way through. It's somehow easier to sound convincing in English.

In Finland, Swedish is the second national tongue, and therefore compulsory. Almost no one puts any effort into it, though. We have to study the so-called "officer Swedish" even in university. I'm forced to read medical texts that are all Greek to me!

Date: 2008-09-07 03:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com
The Gay Omens should be published... Everywhere. (>.>;)

I agree about that, but I don't know, sometimes I think the only reason I can stand reading some things in English is just because it's not my native language. If I tried to read porn in Swedish, I'm sure I wouldn't be able to stop laughing. It seems a lot more natural in English. XP

xD I APOLOGIZE ON BEHALF OF MY NATIVE COUNTRY.

Date: 2008-09-07 04:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] twiyah.livejournal.com
If anyone is to apologize, then the decision-makers in Finland. I don't see why I should be able to very poorly try and serve people in Swedish when 99% of patients are also fluent in Finnish :)

Date: 2008-09-11 05:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sirius-luva.livejournal.com
Gay Omens? OMG, where? I want a copy! Why is Singapore so stuffy and restricted?!?!?!?!

Date: 2008-09-11 05:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com
xD Gay Omens is a term for one of the covers of the book, because it is totally and utterly... Gay. The content haven't changed though. (Sadly. *Shot*)

Here: http://www.sfbok.se/asp/artikel.asp?VolumeID=52173 (From the page of the bookstore where I bought my copy. Oh look, it's on sale now. Again. It actually ranked #5 on the bestselling list of books in Swedish a couple of months ago. xD)

Date: 2008-09-11 05:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sirius-luva.livejournal.com
OME that is so utterly gay! I want that cover! Actually, I want every cover ever printed for Gay Good Omens, but my parents and wallet wouldn't look too kindly on that, so... Even though I can't read Swedish at all (my native tongue is Tamil) I'm tempted to get a copy of the Swedish edition just for the word 'homosexualla'. *rolls eyes at self* Um... do you have a scan/photo of the page? If you don't it's ok.

Date: 2008-09-11 05:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com
I know. It's lovely. <3 And well, it's a little too early in the morning for me to scan anything right now (I have to be in school in about twenty minutes) but if you want me to I can scan it this afternoon instead and send a link in a comment reply or a personal message?

Date: 2008-09-11 05:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sirius-luva.livejournal.com
Oh WOW, thank you so much! How do you say thank you in Swedish? In Tamil we say micca nandri (thank you very much).

Twenty minutes? Wow, I hope I don't make you late? What time is it there? Here it's 1.55 PM.

Date: 2008-09-11 05:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com
"Tack så mycket." :3 It's not so different from English. 'Thanks' 'So' and 'much'.

Nah, it takes about seven minutes for me to walk there, a little shorter if I rush. xD Right now it's eight o'clock in the morning.

Date: 2008-09-11 06:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sirius-luva.livejournal.com
Wow, that sounds like my primary school, which was so near I could see my house after moving a few steps from the back gate. Sigh... Cool, there isn't much time difference... wait, it's 10th September there too, right? Tack s堭ycket! At least you can type it in English. Tamil predates English by centuries (well, spoken and the earliest written forms of Tamil predate English by almost a thousand years or so, if my history is correct, but the written form we use today is only a few centuries or so old) so I can't show you what it's supposed to look like in our script since LJ doesn't have Tamil fonts. (I'm Indian) Did you know Tolkien enjoyed Swedish? Ever since I read that I've admired it. If not for his love for languages like Swedish and Finnish we wouldn't have gotten his beautiful books (long story, but true). A huge tack s堭ycket to your language!

Date: 2008-09-11 04:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l26/Taiyou_to_tsuki/img072.jpg There it is. I took the liberty to underline that certain sentence in Paint. xD

... No, it's the eleventh. 8D WHOOPS. I actually don't know how old Swedish is. It has its roots in German, that I know, because of the Germanic tribes that wandered up north. (They have to have been Germanic. Finland, which is our neighbouring country, has its linguistic roots in the east and Russian. It sounds nothing like Swedish as a language, although you can catch some words like you can with all European languages.) Sweden as a nation is actually very young, and since the country was Christened and entered the Middle Ages the language haven't changed all that much. I can read documents from the seventeenth century in Swedish since only the spelling has changed significantly since then, but earlier than that it becomes trickier. (>.>;)

I didn't know that since I was never a big fan of Tolkien's works, but it's not that surprising. Maybe because he's borrowed a lot from old Aesir legends as well as later Scandinavian folklore and woven that into his world in LoTR and The Hobbit. And the only reason I know *that* is because I had a long period in my life where I obsessed over Scandinavian folktales and similar. (Much like I obsessed over dinosaurs when I was four, Greek mythology when I was seven, ancient Egypt when I was nine, Japan when I was twelve and am now in the middle of an obscene interest in Judaism, Christianity and Islam. XD)

Date: 2008-09-12 06:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sirius-luva.livejournal.com
Wow, thanks so much! Haha, I tried reading the rest, and partially because of certain words' similarity to English and partly because I already know what should be on the page I could sort of understand it and found it hilarious. And that line made me squee.

Eleventh? Wow. You're a whole day ahead. Sweden as a nation may be young but geographically... wow, seventeenth century documents? That's so cool. Tolkien fell in love with the Swedish, Welsh and Finnish (particularly Finnish and Welsh)languages, and also there was this one guy called Munnrot if I remember correctly, I think from Finland, who felt so abd at his country's lack of folklore and culture that he travelled to find folklore and collected it into Finland's history. Tolkien longed to do something like that for England, which had only borrowed languages and myths from the Romans and Celtics and those languages formed the basis of his invented High-Elven and Grey-Elven languages.

Haha, I was obsessed with dinoasurs as a child too! Then I became obsessed with Greek and Egypian myths. Now I'm obsessed with all sorts (Greek, Egyptian, Norse, Celtic, Mayan, my own Indian) and also, due wholly to Good Omens, I am obsessed with Judaism, Christianity and Islam as well. XD

Date: 2008-09-11 04:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] twiyah.livejournal.com
Gay Omens is not a book, but Good Omens with it's gayest cover, in which Aziraphael and Crowley dance atop of a tiny planet. Quantum Witch has redrawn it with a little twist, hence the name.
http://quantum-witch.deviantart.com/art/GO-Gay-Omens-61453603

Date: 2008-09-12 06:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sirius-luva.livejournal.com
Oh WOW, that wa hilarious! Thank so much!

Date: 2008-09-07 08:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] twiyah.livejournal.com
And the finnish cover had 4 motorbikes in it. How sad is that?? D:

Date: 2008-09-07 06:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] prologi.livejournal.com
Oh, that is so cool.

I'm Finnish as well (represeeent), but have never read the Finnish version because I frankly dread the mess they've probably made. The Swedish sounds really awesome, though. (I was terribly surprised to notice that I understood most of the Swedish bits right away. Whut.)

I have to admit that Swedish just makes me lol, for some reason. It might be because the person on our listening comprehension tapes speaks in a terribly preppy, bouncy sort of voice. :D

Date: 2008-09-08 05:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com
C: I know. XD

I personally find it a little sad I don't know any other lnaguages than English and Swedish well enough to read another version of this book than those. XD (I would've been too if it had been, say, Spanish. XP)

Kind of like I have problems watching Finnish or Danish news without snorting every tenth second? >:D

Date: 2008-09-08 07:20 am (UTC)
ext_85481: (duck)
From: [identity profile] hsavinien.livejournal.com
*giggle* Awesome...

Date: 2008-09-11 05:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sirius-luva.livejournal.com
OME this was so freaking hilarious I nearly burst with suppressed laughter! Ha, I KNEW they were canon! Who did the Swedish translation? He rocks! LOL!!!

Date: 2008-09-11 05:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com
The translator's name is Peter Lindforss. I'd never heard of him before. Apparently he also works on the Swdish translations of the Discworld series. XD

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