Big Finish thought
Jan. 18th, 2013 11:35 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
regndoftAnd then I didn't update for two weeks because I started work and got sick within five days. Never change, self.
So, these past five days have been a haze of watching X-Files (I'm on season 5 atm, and I really need to stop taking MONTHS-LONG BREAKS between seasons because I keep forgetting the overall storyline)and Doctor Who episodes. Today I actually managed to get dressed for the first time this week and make lunch that wasn't reheated carrot soup that I managed to cook up on Monday with some effort.
I have also listened to an absurd amount of audio plays, or at least a lot more than I'd usually get through in four days. Namely, the second half of the Fourth Doctor Adventures season one, which, the main thing I have taken away from is that Leela is possibly the most perfect fictional being in existance and Crispy!Master is capable of completely unexpected amounts of sass?? Also Leela/Master team-up on horseback was something I didn't know I wanted until it made me gasp for air.
Finished Dark Eyes today as well. Non-spoilery opinion is that I found it rather enjoyable... until the last part. I was absolutely delighted to have Paul McGann on my iPod again, and it has some good bits of writing and characterisation, but it's the kind of long story where the conclusion kind of makes or breaks it, and I didn't find "X and the Daleks" satisfying at all.
The GOOD bit is that it's a story about hope. Dark!Doctor has become something of a trope over the course of the years in NuWho, but Dark Eyes doesn't go too hard on the angst and emphasises the Doctor's search for hope in a way that feels genuine, and thus more compelling than some writing in the TV series (I am looking at you, Doctor "my companions became displaced in time and lived a happy life without me so I SHALL NEVER SAVE HUMANS AGAIN" Eleven).
I also really liked Molly O'Sullivan. Irish WWI nurse (okay, VAD, whatever) who is tough as nails and punches people in the face? Awesome.
BAD bits:it's a Dalek story going behind cut because spoilers.
First of all, pet peeve: YOU DO NOT NEED TO ALLUDE TO THE TITLE OF THE STORY A BAZILLION TIMES. Using "dark eyes" as a nickname is frankly not something I think the Doctor would do, and we would've got the connection even without getting Molly's eye colour beaten into our heads over and over again. Thank you.
The thing about Dalek stories is that... it takes a lot for them to be good, and even more to feel the slightest bit original. Dark Eyes works as well as it does for the most part because it doesn't feature Daleks that often - all of part 1 is Dalek-free until the ending, part 2 is a serious version of The Chase, part 3 is more about character beats and delving into the Doctor's role as a hero and foil for the tin cans in question and part 4 is where the crescendo begins. Considering how long it is, and how many Daleks could be in it, it is therefore quite successful.
But the conclusion itself doesn't really feel like it follows up what came before it - and I suppose in a way I'd expected that. That Molly was a weapon to wipe out the Time Lords? We knew that already and they don't even really explain what had been done to her. We knew they'd been tracing the Doctor and Molly through time with the relativity map, and personally I called Straxus and our elusive X being the same person before we were even halfway through the boxset. Nothing about the conclusion comes as a revelation to anyone but the Doctor and Molly themselves.
Also, Straxus. Whom I admit to having greatly looked forward to seeing again, and would probably have been happy with... if he had born any resemblance to the Straxus we last saw in season 2. Very little about him feels the same; Straxus in season 1 is a messenger and a politician, caught in a petty quarrel and appointed the responsibility of a botched witness protection scheme. Nothing says that he was the one that planned it. Likewise, in season 2, he is sent to warn the Doctor about Morbius - and ends up suffering greatly because of it.
In short, nothing about Straxus ever screamed "Arch Manipulator" to me. I frankly feel it's a sad waste of a character to ignore what happened to him in Vengeance of Morbius and his subsequent display of sympathy towards Lucie, pointing towards some kind of character development, in favour of making him the Big Bad in Dark Eyes.
His reason for going rogue is also very... look, I know Time Lords are supposed to be antagonists. They are a stagnant, isolationist and supremacist society who are, as a culture, quite distasteful - but that is also what makes them different from many of the other villainous races of Doctor Who. As a culture they're reprehensible, but as individuals they can have their own morals and ideals and personalities. Daleks, Cybermen, Sontarans - many of the great monster races in the Whoniverse are anti-individualistic, and reducing the Time Lords to that is pretty bad storytelling (and one of many reasons for me to dislike The End of Time).
(Incidentally, I recently rewatched The Three Doctors, and was struck by how in their earliest appearances, the Time Lords seemed much more... good. "We will be as vulnerable as the races we have sworn to protect". The idea that the Time Lords are Good Guys, simply incompatible with the Doctor's world view, is to me probably more compelling than their society being "decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core". Maybe because the Doctor's role as a hero isn't objective in that context? That is, it's harder to say that the Doctor is Right and the Time Lords are Wrong when all Time Lords aren't made out to be some variation of corrupted or incompetent.)
Which is why - back on track - comparing the crimes that are committed by the Time Lords, who may not always have the best intent, but not always the worst either, to the Daleks doesn't quite work for me. The Daleks literally hate every sentient being that aren't like them and eradicate them. Sure, it's a bit boring, but they're supposed to be The Ultimate Evil. The Time Lords have arguable committed more and greater crimes, but they've also had 1. more time to do so and 2. they are not some kind of hive mind that all take part in the decisions to commit these crimes.
Also, it's quite a problematic comparison to make because Gallifreyan society and culture is presumably very multi-faceted, but... we're so very seldom shown that in canon. The power and intent to intervene is limited to the High Council and the CIA - hardly representative of the population at large, I'd wager. Unlike the Daleks, who are all genetically engineered to follow the same beliefs, the same thought patterns, share memories - they could just as well be clones because their race allows for no individual experiences.
TL;DR comparing Time Lords to Daleks doesn't make sense because Time Lord culture can't be represented by one single member of their species. Or even ten members. Or a hundred members. Or a million! Because they are *gasp* people.
And UGH, YES, IT'S SCI-FI, I PROBABLY SPENT TOO MUCH TIME WRITING THIS DOWN, but if we can't at least try to portray layered and multi-faceted fictional cultures, how the hell are we supposed to understand them irl?
... Wow, I went off a tangent there.
So I guess I'm listening to Love and War next? Probably Love and War.
So, these past five days have been a haze of watching X-Files (I'm on season 5 atm, and I really need to stop taking MONTHS-LONG BREAKS between seasons because I keep forgetting the overall storyline)and Doctor Who episodes. Today I actually managed to get dressed for the first time this week and make lunch that wasn't reheated carrot soup that I managed to cook up on Monday with some effort.
I have also listened to an absurd amount of audio plays, or at least a lot more than I'd usually get through in four days. Namely, the second half of the Fourth Doctor Adventures season one, which, the main thing I have taken away from is that Leela is possibly the most perfect fictional being in existance and Crispy!Master is capable of completely unexpected amounts of sass?? Also Leela/Master team-up on horseback was something I didn't know I wanted until it made me gasp for air.
Finished Dark Eyes today as well. Non-spoilery opinion is that I found it rather enjoyable... until the last part. I was absolutely delighted to have Paul McGann on my iPod again, and it has some good bits of writing and characterisation, but it's the kind of long story where the conclusion kind of makes or breaks it, and I didn't find "X and the Daleks" satisfying at all.
The GOOD bit is that it's a story about hope. Dark!Doctor has become something of a trope over the course of the years in NuWho, but Dark Eyes doesn't go too hard on the angst and emphasises the Doctor's search for hope in a way that feels genuine, and thus more compelling than some writing in the TV series (I am looking at you, Doctor "my companions became displaced in time and lived a happy life without me so I SHALL NEVER SAVE HUMANS AGAIN" Eleven).
I also really liked Molly O'Sullivan. Irish WWI nurse (okay, VAD, whatever) who is tough as nails and punches people in the face? Awesome.
BAD bits:
First of all, pet peeve: YOU DO NOT NEED TO ALLUDE TO THE TITLE OF THE STORY A BAZILLION TIMES. Using "dark eyes" as a nickname is frankly not something I think the Doctor would do, and we would've got the connection even without getting Molly's eye colour beaten into our heads over and over again. Thank you.
The thing about Dalek stories is that... it takes a lot for them to be good, and even more to feel the slightest bit original. Dark Eyes works as well as it does for the most part because it doesn't feature Daleks that often - all of part 1 is Dalek-free until the ending, part 2 is a serious version of The Chase, part 3 is more about character beats and delving into the Doctor's role as a hero and foil for the tin cans in question and part 4 is where the crescendo begins. Considering how long it is, and how many Daleks could be in it, it is therefore quite successful.
But the conclusion itself doesn't really feel like it follows up what came before it - and I suppose in a way I'd expected that. That Molly was a weapon to wipe out the Time Lords? We knew that already and they don't even really explain what had been done to her. We knew they'd been tracing the Doctor and Molly through time with the relativity map, and personally I called Straxus and our elusive X being the same person before we were even halfway through the boxset. Nothing about the conclusion comes as a revelation to anyone but the Doctor and Molly themselves.
Also, Straxus. Whom I admit to having greatly looked forward to seeing again, and would probably have been happy with... if he had born any resemblance to the Straxus we last saw in season 2. Very little about him feels the same; Straxus in season 1 is a messenger and a politician, caught in a petty quarrel and appointed the responsibility of a botched witness protection scheme. Nothing says that he was the one that planned it. Likewise, in season 2, he is sent to warn the Doctor about Morbius - and ends up suffering greatly because of it.
In short, nothing about Straxus ever screamed "Arch Manipulator" to me. I frankly feel it's a sad waste of a character to ignore what happened to him in Vengeance of Morbius and his subsequent display of sympathy towards Lucie, pointing towards some kind of character development, in favour of making him the Big Bad in Dark Eyes.
His reason for going rogue is also very... look, I know Time Lords are supposed to be antagonists. They are a stagnant, isolationist and supremacist society who are, as a culture, quite distasteful - but that is also what makes them different from many of the other villainous races of Doctor Who. As a culture they're reprehensible, but as individuals they can have their own morals and ideals and personalities. Daleks, Cybermen, Sontarans - many of the great monster races in the Whoniverse are anti-individualistic, and reducing the Time Lords to that is pretty bad storytelling (and one of many reasons for me to dislike The End of Time).
(Incidentally, I recently rewatched The Three Doctors, and was struck by how in their earliest appearances, the Time Lords seemed much more... good. "We will be as vulnerable as the races we have sworn to protect". The idea that the Time Lords are Good Guys, simply incompatible with the Doctor's world view, is to me probably more compelling than their society being "decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core". Maybe because the Doctor's role as a hero isn't objective in that context? That is, it's harder to say that the Doctor is Right and the Time Lords are Wrong when all Time Lords aren't made out to be some variation of corrupted or incompetent.)
Which is why - back on track - comparing the crimes that are committed by the Time Lords, who may not always have the best intent, but not always the worst either, to the Daleks doesn't quite work for me. The Daleks literally hate every sentient being that aren't like them and eradicate them. Sure, it's a bit boring, but they're supposed to be The Ultimate Evil. The Time Lords have arguable committed more and greater crimes, but they've also had 1. more time to do so and 2. they are not some kind of hive mind that all take part in the decisions to commit these crimes.
Also, it's quite a problematic comparison to make because Gallifreyan society and culture is presumably very multi-faceted, but... we're so very seldom shown that in canon. The power and intent to intervene is limited to the High Council and the CIA - hardly representative of the population at large, I'd wager. Unlike the Daleks, who are all genetically engineered to follow the same beliefs, the same thought patterns, share memories - they could just as well be clones because their race allows for no individual experiences.
TL;DR comparing Time Lords to Daleks doesn't make sense because Time Lord culture can't be represented by one single member of their species. Or even ten members. Or a hundred members. Or a million! Because they are *gasp* people.
And UGH, YES, IT'S SCI-FI, I PROBABLY SPENT TOO MUCH TIME WRITING THIS DOWN, but if we can't at least try to portray layered and multi-faceted fictional cultures, how the hell are we supposed to understand them irl?
... Wow, I went off a tangent there.
So I guess I'm listening to Love and War next? Probably Love and War.
no subject
Date: 2013-01-19 09:55 am (UTC)1. love and war is pretty good. so i hope you like that.
2. why bother to bring straxus back if you're going to make him a new character? was it just as a wall for deception? i suppose they had relative success with that with brax... and the doctor... but why bother with straxus?
3. what was his specific reason for going rogue? that he felt the time lords were really bad?
4. what you say about the time lords not needing to be evil for the doctor to have rebelled against them is also true - and pretty much what we get in canon. the end of time has to have a rubbish explanation re 'the doctor had repressed the bit about how they went dark in the end of the war!!!' whihc is.. one of the many things that sucks about 'the end of time'... although i can't help loving the OTT rassilon of timothy dalton... becuase that is as crack to me. but i know that it is wrong and i do not want it for larger reasons.
maybe you should listen to 'full fathom five' - at some point. this may seem to come out of nowhere, but i was just thinking about time lords basically doing things for 'the greater good' and how that can easily be scary and evil and not who the doctor is/it is what he positions himself against. anyway - that is shown in this audio (by making an AU doctor work for the greater good).
no subject
Date: 2013-01-19 11:32 am (UTC)2. This is basically what I'm wondering? I liked Straxus as he was. The thing is, it doesn't really come out of left field because in his very first scene he is obviously doing Shady Stuff that the Lord President isn't really happy with at all. So. I guess they wanted a connection to Eight's earlier adventures with Lucie, but they didn't want Straxus. So they made a new character and called him Straxus.
3. Yup. Apparently the Time Lords were so much worse than the Daleks that he went and hooked up with the Dalek Time Controller and had himself genetically altered with Dalek DNA to be Time Lord no more... instead of going to another time-sensitive species that could pose a threat to Gallifrey that doesn't consist of genocidal pepper pots.
4. I've had a lot of bottled up End of Time frustration for over a year now, apparently it needed to get out. Even in the classic series, I think there's a difference between the Time Lords as antagonists in the War Games/during the Doctor's exile, because in that case they are antagonistic in reaction to the Doctor's own actions, and later when they just seem to... produce a disconcerting amount of power-crazy megalomaniacs who get into high positions of political importance. Or are simply incompetent (wth even was their plan in Arc of Infinity?).
But I suppose we also have little to no reason to see them on-screen unless they are there to be antagonist or need the Doctor's help somehow. So yeah, I like the Time Lords being antagonistic, but not portrayed as villains. For them to work towards "the greater good", and committing atrocities along the way, isn't actually unreasonable because being able to look at all of space and time must give you a rather different perspective where it's easy to miss the small things. And sometimes the Doctor is justified in telling them off for that, sometimes... you understand why they'd think the ends justify the means.
The Unbound audio sounds interesting, but I have like... a bazillion audios to listen to and not nearly enough money. So it might take time (though the Unbound audios are also cheaper, so).
no subject
Date: 2013-01-19 03:31 pm (UTC)are you choosing to get love and war because of the 50% off? and if you're not - did you know big finish have it at 50% off this weekend?
also - i headdesked (only into my hands) about the 'time lords=worse than the daleks'. sigh. basically.
no subject
Date: 2013-01-20 03:56 pm (UTC)Did enjoy He Jests at Scars though, and have mixed feelings about Sympathy for the Devil.
I did (Tumblr is very useful for spreading news like that fast), but I already have Love and War. A friend of mine got all Big Finish's special releases, so I'm working my way through those right now; after Dark Eyes, Love and War seemed as good an audio as any other to continue with (I'm buying The Last Post for the sale though, because Liiiz).